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Published on November 29, 2005 By ----- In Misc
(Edited)

1. You take every opportunity to talk smack about Iraq and the military. You do your pro-war cheerleader routine (or conversely, your anti-war cheerleader routine) with such callousness that even though you mouth support for the troops, you actually don't care what happens to any given Soldier. You laud their sacrifices while showing complete disregard for their lives.


2. You use graphic photos of Soldiers or even dead civilians to illustrate your political points (again, this runs both ways). You justify this by claiming that people need to see it.


3. You speak for the military, telling other what the service members would want. I've been guilty of this before, and in truth I can only speak for myself and to a lesser extent for my husband. This tactic is seen on both sides of the spectrum as well.


4. You express your viewpoints inarticulately, with minimal thought put into them, and with complete disregard for the fact that what you are discussing is real and that real people's lives are in the balance. You fail to recognize or express the gravity of the topic matter. You talk about the war with the same detachedness and fervor that you would use when debating a buddy over which brand of beer tastes better. (Libs and Conservatives alike)


5. You are of enlistment age, particularly healthy, and particularly male, and yet, despite all your vocal, careless rantings, you have excuses why you cannot enlist. You proclaim that you would love to be over there and that you would enlist and serve in a heartbeat...but... There's always a "but" with pasty piles of goo.


To the individual who assumed I was referring to him in my war article...I was not. I apologize for making you feel indicted by my article. You don't fit the profile. I've never considered you one of the pro-war blowhards that so irk me. I think you approach the issue with intelligence and sensitivity.



My response:

1) I do understand the risks, that at any moment they (US Soldier) could die. I *DO* care for their lives. In the same apsect, I *DO* care for the iraqi's lives, and want them to have freedom, and not be constantly in danger of death, etc... I support *freedom*, *liberty*, NOT war. IF there was any other way to bring others freedom, then lets use that instead of war. I realize that the latter isn't always available and that war is sometimes necessary. Now, that doesn't mean that we (US) have to hold their hand. Once they (Iraq) are capable of maintaining the 'fight' themselves, then, we should completely leave. Even withdrawing troops a little bit at a time would work for me. To paraphrase what another blogger (I believe it was parated2k) said: "We went in, we are doing a job, we need to finish the job." (I apologize if the quote is off in anyway)


2) I didn't use a graphic photo of a *soldier*. The photo in question, IMO, expresses what i feel, and what i believe the purpose of bring freedom to iraq is.

My degree to which sending a loved one or close friend over to iraq is different than yours, I admit that, i was wrong in saying otherwise. Does that mean though, that my feelings for them is any les than yours for your husband? I don't know, why, because i don't know what your relationship is like. I can understand that a husband-wife relationship is much more intense/bonding. I'm sure you care for him, thats obvious, but i care for those i know that are or were in the military. To say that I don't is insulting.

3. You speak for the military, telling other what the service members would want. I've been guilty of this before, and in truth I can only speak for myself and to a lesser extent for my husband. This tactic is seen on both sides of the spectrum as well.


3)I never intended to speak for the military. I apologize.

4. You express your viewpoints inarticulately, with minimal thought put into them, and with complete disregard for the fact that what you are discussing is real and that real people's lives are in the balance. You fail to recognize or express the gravity of the topic matter. You talk about the war with the same detachedness and fervor that you would use when debating a buddy over which brand of beer tastes better. (Libs and Conservatives alike)


4)I'm working on the 'expressing viewpoints articulately' part. I do understand, and do regard what i said with seriousness. Thats why i said it. (Not as clearly as i should've) Its cause i care. And no, i don't drink.

5. You are of enlistment age, particularly healthy, and particularly male, and yet, despite all your vocal, careless rantings, you have excuses why you cannot enlist. You proclaim that you would love to be over there and that you would enlist and serve in a heartbeat...but... There's always a "but" with pasty piles of goo.


5)Yes, I am of age. And yes, I have a reasonable reason of why i cannot enlist. My health. It will take time for you, or anyone to believe me. If need be, i can take photos of my various equipment to prove my health condition, if that's what is needed. And yes, i would love to be over their and helping with whatever i can.

To the individual who assumed I was referring to him in my war article...I was not. I apologize for making you feel indicted by my article. You don't fit the profile. I've never considered you one of the pro-war blowhards that so irk me. I think you approach the issue with intelligence and sensitivity.


I assumed it was me.

How would it make anyone but the current administration look like fools? And the value of a life is not measured by the outcome of the Iraq war. The men and women who have died in Iraq have personal value based on their choices and relationships with others. If they died heroically, or were good people, nothing will change that.


There are those, (Who i despise) who would say the soldiers in question were "foolish" enough to follow an administration which lied,etc... Thats how i see that. There will be those who as you said, still view the soldiers as heroic, regardless of the administration, to them, actions mean more than words. I feel that way. (the latter) Thats why i am concerned with those assholes who talk the talk, and don't/haven't walked the walk.

Lucas, you are so far removed from this.


How so? In that those that i know who are/were in the military don't happen to be 'as close' as a husband-wife relationship?

Perhaps I did 'pass judgement'. I apologize. I didn't view it as that at the time.

Writing letters to Soldiers is not even remotely similar to experiencing the effect of the war or contributing to it. What did you donate to your National Guard branch? When? Details, please?


Experiencing it, sure. Contributing to war, i.e. fighting, yes you are correct. But, I helped the soldiers.

No, Lucas, you talked out of your ass here and I called you on it. Your past is a part of who you are, and everyone's dealings with you is colored by the lies, the venom, the childishness, and the dishonesty you've displayed here. You can't divorce yourself from your actions.


But you can divorce yourself from the continuous cycle of doing the same things over and over.

You have a history of posting whatever you think will get you the most attention, Lucas. You reinvent yourself to get attention and attaboys from the people on this site. You're transparent. This is obviously a bid to get the pro-war folks on here to like you and give you attention.


Yes I do have that history. But, I've buried the hatchet. Not forgotten it. I'm sorry to say that you are wrong in your assumption.


-lucas

Comments
on Nov 30, 2005
Maybe we're trying a little bit too hard?
on Nov 30, 2005
Maybe we're trying a little bit too hard?


"We're" as in me? Or as in JU as a whole. Or the world/us?

If me:

In saying i'm sorry? Perhaps.

In expressing my opinion. Most likely.

I just want her, and others, to know that i'm not what she thought i am, i'm not a 'pile of goo'. If that condems me of attention grabbing, or "being liked". Then so be it......



on Nov 30, 2005
No...it's okay to say I'm sorry (once is enough, however). It's okay to express your opinion, but don't go in with the expectation that everyone's going to agree with you--ESPECIALLY over a topic like the war.
on Nov 30, 2005
Dude, you shouldn't have done this.

You had the opportunity to do this in private. I told you that I'd forward your apology/explanation to her.....yet you chose to do it here, in public.

Doesn't surprise me, really. That's your style.
on Nov 30, 2005
No...it's okay to say I'm sorry (once is enough, however). It's okay to express your opinion, but don't go in with the expectation that everyone's going to agree with you--ESPECIALLY over a topic like the war.


I never expected that, though, I never thought she'd rip me a new one like she did...

Dude, you shouldn't have done this. You had the opportunity to do this in private. I told you that I'd forward your apology/explanation to her.....yet you chose to do it here, in public.Doesn't surprise me, really. That's your style.


Perhaps I shouldn't have. But, now *everyone* knows where i stand, now, there is no tossing words around, i've admitted i was wrong on several accounts... I'm accepting my responsibility for my actions and clarifying what i meant, not what i typed... (Kind of.....never mind.)

Of COURSE she understands. She just doesnt agree. She understands everything you've said too, and doesn't agree. So this entire exercise in *explaining* yourself is only going to escalate matters.


IMO, I don't think she does. Because *I* wasn't clear enough in my opinion. Its my fault i got into this. I will close this though.

You are never going to convince her of your 'rightness' in this matter, Lucas. I'm a friend of hers and *I* wouldnt even be able to do that, no matter how long I hammered on it. So out of respect for her, her intelligence, and her personal feelings, I give her the dignity of her own opinion, Lucas, as I would anyone I respect as much as I respect her.


on Nov 30, 2005
Reply By: Marcie Helen


Also, MH, you *do* realize i was just giving you a bad time when i was being sarcastic in an article of mine a while back. About the teaching 1st graders....right? If not, now ya know.

-Lucas
on Nov 30, 2005
(Here ya go tex, if you want to reply, it's open)
on Nov 30, 2005

Perhaps I shouldn't have

No, there's no 'perhaps'.  You SHOULDN"T have, period. 

You simply don't fucking learn, do you?

on Nov 30, 2005
Lucas: What is it that you want me to say to you?

You angered me with your post. I told you how I felt about it (in very harsh words, I'll admit). You called me an "ass" and said a lot things that angered me further.

I can accept your apology, but you know what will happen? A few months from now we'll be doing this all over again.

I'm also more than a little dismayed that you chose to post this to the forums (and I feel the same way about ParaTed's article that repeatedly referred to me by name and was a "moral of the story" article using my personal thoughts and experiences as the basis...I don't believe that belonged on the forums, either).

What would like to see happen here?
on Nov 30, 2005
No, there's no 'perhaps'. You SHOULDN"T have, period. You simply don't fucking learn, do you?


So clarifying my position is bad now?
on Nov 30, 2005

So clarifying my position is bad now?

YOU DID IN PUBLIC WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER SAID IN PRIVATE.  YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT IN PRIVATE, YET YOU CHOSE TO BRING IT HERE. 

YOU HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE, AND YOU SWORE THAT YOU WOULDN'T DO IT AGAIN....YET YOU DO.  AGAIN.  AND AGAIN.  AND AGAIN.

Seeing as you don't want to do anything in private, I'll say to you here what I was going to say (and have said) in private.

I showed my husband your emails.  I showed him my responses to your emails.  He would like for you to respect my wishes and NOT email me or contact me again.  He wants you to know that there is no 'relationship' between you and I, that there never was, and that for you to continually contact me after I have asked you NOT to is slightly creepy and very sad. 

I don't need him to fight my battles for me.  I don't usually show him my personal emails.  Yours though.....he asked to see them after I had complained that you didn't get the message that I don't want to associate with you.  He thought I wasn't being clear enough with you, see.  Until he read the emails, that was.  Then it became very apparent that I WAS being clear; that the problem was that YOU were ignoring what I was saying.

If you insist on emailing me, Lucas, I will insist on first posting your email messages on my blog so that everyone can see them, and then I will call your mother and tell her that you're pestering me.  You may think that's harsh, and I'm sure that other people will think so too.  I think that it's harsh (and incredibly rude) that you ignore what I tell you and continually pester me.

Do you understand?  Are we clear?

on Nov 30, 2005
1-You lay low for a while.
2-You eventually post an article that angers someone. -- Not intended.
3- You retaliate in anger, instead of calmly defending your position. -- *sigh* I do not know what i'm gonna do about my temper.
4- Things escalate.
5- You begin to backpedal, "explaining" yourself or backing down from your position rather than just blowing it off.
6- You then write an apology article.
7- You then scour the forums for references to your original argument, and keep it going by posting point by point rebuttals, keeping things going.
8- When your explanations and apologies are rejected, you react in anger.
9- Things escalate.
10- You lay low for a while...

Reply By: Texas Wahine


I didn't present my position very well. I felt, that because i was angry that IMO you seemed to disgregard my side, that i was _____, and _____ and too ______. So, I wrote this, when i was calm. I posted it publicly so that everyone knows where i can stand. Call it a reaction against the strength of your comments. I was seriously blindsided and purely reacted w/o thinking out things. It won't happen again. Cause if i continue to let it happen, it will affect my family, friends, etc... No. I will *not* let that happen. I just wanted to make sure you understood my main points. That I wasn't as you said, dismissing the gravity of the war and saying that soldiers are mere pawns. It was a rant...full of frustration and steam coming out of my ears.

I have his address if D wants to go show him what being an adult is really about.


Do not.

I showed my husband your emails. I showed him my responses to your emails. He would like for you to respect my wishes and NOT email me or contact me again. He wants you to know that there is no 'relationship' between you and I, that there never was, and that for you to continually contact me after I have asked you NOT to is slightly creepy and very sad.


Ummm, excuse me? I sent you an email apologizing. And I believe it was *you* that said you would think about it. Correct? But, no matter. Done. I never meant to be creepy. If anything i felt like a clueless 'ol scarecrow. :/

If you insist on emailing me, Lucas, I will insist on first posting your email messages on my blog so that everyone can see them, and then I will call your mother and tell her that you're pestering me. You may think that's harsh, and I'm sure that other people will think so too. I think that it's harsh (and incredibly rude) that you ignore what I tell you and continually pester me.


No need. I'm not ignoring it. I just, never saw what you saw. I don't know why. Call me dumb if ya want on that account. Please give your husband my apologies as well.


LW:

You know what... I feel VERY retarded right now. (No need to jump all over that grenade, thank you very much) I think i finally...see what you (at least LW) are saying.

Calmly defend my position.
If it escalates, things don't work out, blow it off.
If I write an apology, and is rejected, blow it off...shrug it off.

???
on Nov 30, 2005
Taking a break, will be logging elsewhere:

Link

on Nov 30, 2005
Taking a break, will be blogging elsewhere:

Link

on Dec 01, 2005
I don't get it. I don't understand why, if he bothers everyone so much, that everyone keeps responding, making him more and more agitated and just basically fueling the fire?

It's your blog, Lucas. You're entitled to your opinions, and if the staff at Stardock didn't want you to continue blogging here, they'd boot you, simple as that. Taking a break isn't a bad thing. Do that. But don't invest your emotional and time resources into JU or into the people here. Go out and make REAL acquaintences. This is just fluff.